I’m making two mistakes here – seeing go/stay as a dichotomy, when really “stay” encapsulates “go” in terms of mission for that plant; and I think I’m considering this perhaps too coolly and not relationally.

That said, Paul’s methodology was obviously relational, but I’d hesitate in saying that his methodology is in any way prescriptive, but descriptive.

How are you measuring effectiveness?

a number of reasons:
1) doing 10 church plants would kill him!! especially the last 5!!
2) i think he can plant more churches than 10 by staying in the same place. since your church started he(andrew)/we(ccec) has/have been significant in starting 4 more churches. that’s pretty much 1 church a year. the more you start the more you can start. the longer our church goes the more people that catch the vision.

-in 30 years andrew can start 10 churchs by GOING.
-in 30 years andrew can help to start over 100 churches by STAYING.

how do i measure effectiveness??
ultimately it’s about being faithful to the gospel and God will give the growth…
but for the sake of strategy i think it is more strategic and more effeective if 100 solid churches are planted since more people will have the opportunity to hear the gospel and grow in it

How are you measuring effectiveness?

I actually think Dave and Andrew are even more rare than we give them credit for…in the church planting sense they are both excellent at establishing and growing a church plant. I think it is difficult for us to be objective as their ministry has been so successful (under God!). Perhaps we need to look at church plants that have failed/struggled to fully answer the go/stay issue?

I think you are right that under my proposal the church would know from the outset that the establishor would leave in three years – this would a) give them motive to seach for a replacement early, b) stop the church from falling into a personality cult and c) perhaps provide the seed funding for the establisher’s next plant (helping them to be mission focussed)

i like what you say. i need to reflect on it more.

i think that andrew heard’s and dave sheath’s are rare guys that we don’t come across too often…

maybe the key to your suggestion is that the congregation know from the beginning that at the 3 year mark a new guy will be coming. that means people aren’t shocked… there aren’t false expectations… and it would even maybe give the congregation the vision and desire to keep thinking about how they will support their planter in his next endeavour.

i’ll keep thinking…
thanks for the contribution

I think the gifts needed to establish a ministry are harder (and thus more rare) than those needed to sustain and, obviously, grow a church. I wonder if it would be more effective to do it this way:

1. Locals form core group in area needing to be reached. Meets for a year.

2. “Establisher” minister + MTS worker comes in for a fixed term (maybee 3 years?), with the brief to establish the church, have it become self funding and then find a replacement for himself.

3. Sustainer/Grower comes in for long term (10/20/30 year) committment.

I think this plan might see more churches planted (planters are in short supply)….

thoughts?

it would be hard to start in the smaller base and then try to plant out.

i like what simon g is doing at maitland.
their plan is to have a solid church within half an hour of everyone in the hunter valley. my guess is that once they reach that they will aim to have a church every 15 minutes!!

Personally, whenever I drive down to Ikea in Springwood (in Logan, south of Brisbane) I think it would be the perfect place for a church to be planted. Basically anywhere along the corridor between Brisbane and the Gold Coast is in great need for gospel ministry as the population there grows and grows.

Question: Does anyone else think that the “Go” model might be the Paulian way?

Church plant? Well, you plant where the growth is, like CCEC. (Or where the grow has been and Christianity hasn’t caught up). So that would mean SW Sydney, to the max.

Staying is better. Less stresful on minister and congregation, and more stable and productive.