Ooh….I’m thankful to God for all the kingdom-minded visionaries who don’t just have big goals, but also practical and concrete ideas for what it would look like and plans for how to achieve them! And because he is on about God’s kingdom and not his own, he’s generous to share the resources, ideas etc of his well resourced church with other not so well resourced churches so others can grow in their love of Jesus too. We like Mark Driscoll. He’s a regular preacher at our church because my husband works part-time in a school and part-time pastoring the night congregation of St Mark’s, Oakhurst. :)
Ooh, I’m thankful to God for the Christ-centred visionaries He’s given His church who don’t just have big goals but also practical ideas for what they’d look like and concrete plans for how to achieve them. And being so on about God’s kingdom and not his own, Driscoll’s generous with his resources, ideas etc. so that under resourced churches all over the world can benefit from the blessings God’s given Mars Hill as a church! We regularly get Driscoll in to preach at our church because my husband works part time as the night church pastor at St Mark’s and part time as school chaplain at Richard Johnson Anglican School!
hey julie thanks for the comments… i’m guessing you thought you’d lost the first one!! good job typing it all out again!!!
i love it how they share the love!
how often do you play driscoll at st mark’s? is it just one offs or do you play a series?
here’s my tweet on the above vid:
“i like it. enables expansion, creative, solid theology, training mindset, takes kids seriously”
I like the bigness of the vision and the fact they’re valuing kids of all ages. Also like the link between home and church.
However I’m not sure how good it is to be boxing young children into becoming worship leaders, or into other roles. As long as kids have an opportunity to switch around in roles and explore their various gifts.
Love how excellent they are trying to make it, looking forward to seeing what resources they create!
it defs is big!
i don’t think that helping with singing as a 7 year old locks an individual into a worship leader career path anymore than being a book monitor at primary school locks you into one day being a librarian. you know what i mean?
Yeah totally, their vision just seems really strong. But I guess there cant be anything wrong with experience.
I like the curriculum stuff and would love to see the video they put together for it :) Sounds fun and exciting! I would love to see the space they use and see more of how the kids community groups work in terms of leader-kids ratios! The family devotion things is great! I think Chrissy has a lot to do (would love to go and see how she does it!!)
I feel SUPER encouraged the Driscoll is a big pastor man who is thinking about the little people in his flock and working out how to ensure they are taught well too! Kids ministries often become out of sight out of mind when the disappear to kids programs, so its a great example he is setting :)
yep – chrissy sounds pretty gifted in writing and education!
likewise good call on the senior leadership helping to set the direction.
p.s thanks Dave for posting! I have stalked their website trying to see what they have for kids but this is the first thing i have seen :) The village often has cool stuff too :)
you’re welcome.
do you mean the village church in texas?
yup they have a childrens minisry blog and a parents resource page that has great ideas :) really encouraging place to visit!
there’s lots of great stuff about this vision (all said above) which I love but I’m generally not a fan of video teaching for adults or kids on a regular basis. I’d much rather see good structure in place for hand picking and training great people to teach in person.
having said that, everything else sounds really exciting and its nice to see kids ministry taken so serious and valued so highly.
I’d much rather see good structure in place for hand picking and training great people to teach in person.>
i’m guessing they would too.
but the impression i got was they’re growing quicker than they’re able to resource it…
It is great they are wanting to make good quality resources. I think it is a shame that they are not training more bible teachers who can teach the children in their care, within the context of relationship. Would be interested to look at what they come up with. I also think interactive lessons, hands on/ get in amongst it lessons are so valuable for learning – I worry that ‘video’ teaching will lose some important things. I also think that there are lots of different ways in which children learn – through games, through activities, through acting, through listening, through speaking – how will a video teaching program help with all of these?
I do love that they are integrating church learning with what is being taught at home – it should happen more often. Ok will get off my hobby horse now. Thanks for sharing :)
good points jen. i like.
i don’t think they’re suggesting that the video’s will replace other human beings in the class that can form solid relationships with kids in real time.
i think that what they’re proposing is more like what we often do with scripture classes and sunday school classes by centralising the material.
in what way do you think that mars hill proposal is different from material you prepare for others to use – or the material that CEP prepares for SRE teachers to use?
A couple of thoughts:
1. I remember a couple of years ago when Mark talked about his then philosophy of “no separate kids’ ministry, all in church”. I’m glad he’s come around to the idea of age-appropriate learning. :)
2. The age-appropriate doctrine-based curriculum is an interesting idea. It sounds kind of similar to the old idea of “catechising” – but a heap more interesting!
3. I was a little nervous at first about the video curriculum, but if it’s backed up by discussion and activities that reinforce the teaching, then that’s cool. I’d just be a little concerned that it would create a “consumer” approach, rather than a “participation” one.
4. The Child Apprentice idea is a little bit of a concern – particularly focussing on the “confident” or “assertive” kids to be the up-front ones. I don’t know that the idea gels particularly well with the bible’s idea of servant leadership. The jury’s still out on that one for me. I’d have no problem in training young leaders, and helping them to grow in their confidence etc. But the child apprentices are also, by the fact they’re up front, models for the other kids – not just in “worship” time, but also outside the group in their behaviour. Minefield!
5. I agree with Jen, too. :) I’m a little concerned about the longevity of Mars Hill if they’re not equipping bible teachers, or letting their members have the confidence that they are able to teach children themselves. I guess they’re focussing on quality control.
hey kris, thanks for stopping by.
1) i didn’t realise that they didn’t have kids min. i knew they didn’t have youth min (ie age 10 up) do their own program during church time.
2) catechising is cool :)
3) i think you’re right. if the person employed has some many education credentials, i’d sure she’d help to shape a program that included plenty of discussion and hands on activities too.
4) haha. i reckon there’s a bit of americanism in there? maybe? and probably some driscoll rhetoric?
5) we’ll see what happens… and pray too! :)
I think a program that teaches the bible throughly would be great, most ones I see are disjointed, are simply moralism or boring.
However I am not a fan of video, relationships are so important in teaching the bible. And I am a bit worried about the child leadership thing, I think it probably fails the 1 Timmothy 3 test “not a novice, lest being puffed up he fall into the condemnation of the devil.”
thanks for the comment aaran.
see my previous comments for some thoughts on video.
i don’t think that 1 timothy 3 applies so tightly to children and leadership. the leadership in 1 tim is talking about overseers of a church. these children aren’t being asked to do that… although the character principles of the pastoral epistles ought always shape the type of leadership we want… child or adult.
Sounds like Plato’s Republic
haha – had to look it up again, had forgotten!
hope college is going well scott :)
i remember appreciating this video on why mars hill use video from a few years ago.
if you have a chance – let me know what you think!
Ooh….I’m thankful to God for all the kingdom-minded visionaries who don’t just have big goals, but also practical and concrete ideas for what it would look like and plans for how to achieve them! And because he is on about God’s kingdom and not his own, he’s generous to share the resources, ideas etc of his well resourced church with other not so well resourced churches so others can grow in their love of Jesus too. We like Mark Driscoll. He’s a regular preacher at our church because my husband works part-time in a school and part-time pastoring the night congregation of St Mark’s, Oakhurst. :)
Ooh, I’m thankful to God for the Christ-centred visionaries He’s given His church who don’t just have big goals but also practical ideas for what they’d look like and concrete plans for how to achieve them. And being so on about God’s kingdom and not his own, Driscoll’s generous with his resources, ideas etc. so that under resourced churches all over the world can benefit from the blessings God’s given Mars Hill as a church! We regularly get Driscoll in to preach at our church because my husband works part time as the night church pastor at St Mark’s and part time as school chaplain at Richard Johnson Anglican School!
hey julie thanks for the comments… i’m guessing you thought you’d lost the first one!! good job typing it all out again!!!
i love it how they share the love!
how often do you play driscoll at st mark’s? is it just one offs or do you play a series?
here’s my tweet on the above vid:
“i like it. enables expansion, creative, solid theology, training mindset, takes kids seriously”
I like the bigness of the vision and the fact they’re valuing kids of all ages. Also like the link between home and church.
However I’m not sure how good it is to be boxing young children into becoming worship leaders, or into other roles. As long as kids have an opportunity to switch around in roles and explore their various gifts.
Love how excellent they are trying to make it, looking forward to seeing what resources they create!
it defs is big!
i don’t think that helping with singing as a 7 year old locks an individual into a worship leader career path anymore than being a book monitor at primary school locks you into one day being a librarian. you know what i mean?
Yeah totally, their vision just seems really strong. But I guess there cant be anything wrong with experience.
I like the curriculum stuff and would love to see the video they put together for it :) Sounds fun and exciting! I would love to see the space they use and see more of how the kids community groups work in terms of leader-kids ratios! The family devotion things is great! I think Chrissy has a lot to do (would love to go and see how she does it!!)
I feel SUPER encouraged the Driscoll is a big pastor man who is thinking about the little people in his flock and working out how to ensure they are taught well too! Kids ministries often become out of sight out of mind when the disappear to kids programs, so its a great example he is setting :)
yep – chrissy sounds pretty gifted in writing and education!
likewise good call on the senior leadership helping to set the direction.
p.s thanks Dave for posting! I have stalked their website trying to see what they have for kids but this is the first thing i have seen :) The village often has cool stuff too :)
you’re welcome.
do you mean the village church in texas?
yup they have a childrens minisry blog and a parents resource page that has great ideas :) really encouraging place to visit!
i’m guessing it’s
this: http://fm.thevillagechurch.net/children/resources
and
this: http://fm.thevillagechurch.net/blog/children/
thanks for sharing!
there’s lots of great stuff about this vision (all said above) which I love but I’m generally not a fan of video teaching for adults or kids on a regular basis. I’d much rather see good structure in place for hand picking and training great people to teach in person.
having said that, everything else sounds really exciting and its nice to see kids ministry taken so serious and valued so highly.
I’d much rather see good structure in place for hand picking and training great people to teach in person.>
i’m guessing they would too.
but the impression i got was they’re growing quicker than they’re able to resource it…
It is great they are wanting to make good quality resources. I think it is a shame that they are not training more bible teachers who can teach the children in their care, within the context of relationship. Would be interested to look at what they come up with. I also think interactive lessons, hands on/ get in amongst it lessons are so valuable for learning – I worry that ‘video’ teaching will lose some important things. I also think that there are lots of different ways in which children learn – through games, through activities, through acting, through listening, through speaking – how will a video teaching program help with all of these?
I do love that they are integrating church learning with what is being taught at home – it should happen more often. Ok will get off my hobby horse now. Thanks for sharing :)
good points jen. i like.
i don’t think they’re suggesting that the video’s will replace other human beings in the class that can form solid relationships with kids in real time.
i think that what they’re proposing is more like what we often do with scripture classes and sunday school classes by centralising the material.
in what way do you think that mars hill proposal is different from material you prepare for others to use – or the material that CEP prepares for SRE teachers to use?
A couple of thoughts:
1. I remember a couple of years ago when Mark talked about his then philosophy of “no separate kids’ ministry, all in church”. I’m glad he’s come around to the idea of age-appropriate learning. :)
2. The age-appropriate doctrine-based curriculum is an interesting idea. It sounds kind of similar to the old idea of “catechising” – but a heap more interesting!
3. I was a little nervous at first about the video curriculum, but if it’s backed up by discussion and activities that reinforce the teaching, then that’s cool. I’d just be a little concerned that it would create a “consumer” approach, rather than a “participation” one.
4. The Child Apprentice idea is a little bit of a concern – particularly focussing on the “confident” or “assertive” kids to be the up-front ones. I don’t know that the idea gels particularly well with the bible’s idea of servant leadership. The jury’s still out on that one for me. I’d have no problem in training young leaders, and helping them to grow in their confidence etc. But the child apprentices are also, by the fact they’re up front, models for the other kids – not just in “worship” time, but also outside the group in their behaviour. Minefield!
5. I agree with Jen, too. :) I’m a little concerned about the longevity of Mars Hill if they’re not equipping bible teachers, or letting their members have the confidence that they are able to teach children themselves. I guess they’re focussing on quality control.
hey kris, thanks for stopping by.
1) i didn’t realise that they didn’t have kids min. i knew they didn’t have youth min (ie age 10 up) do their own program during church time.
2) catechising is cool :)
3) i think you’re right. if the person employed has some many education credentials, i’d sure she’d help to shape a program that included plenty of discussion and hands on activities too.
4) haha. i reckon there’s a bit of americanism in there? maybe? and probably some driscoll rhetoric?
5) we’ll see what happens… and pray too! :)
I think a program that teaches the bible throughly would be great, most ones I see are disjointed, are simply moralism or boring.
However I am not a fan of video, relationships are so important in teaching the bible. And I am a bit worried about the child leadership thing, I think it probably fails the 1 Timmothy 3 test “not a novice, lest being puffed up he fall into the condemnation of the devil.”
thanks for the comment aaran.
see my previous comments for some thoughts on video.
i don’t think that 1 timothy 3 applies so tightly to children and leadership. the leadership in 1 tim is talking about overseers of a church. these children aren’t being asked to do that… although the character principles of the pastoral epistles ought always shape the type of leadership we want… child or adult.
Sounds like Plato’s Republic
haha – had to look it up again, had forgotten!
hope college is going well scott :)
i remember appreciating this video on why mars hill use video from a few years ago.
if you have a chance – let me know what you think!
http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/special/videology